Chris Worfolk's Blog


The Jason Paradox

November 2nd, 2009 | Friends, Thoughts

Clever people believe silly things.

This is why the argument that religion must be intellectually tenable because academics and scientists subscribe to such beliefs holds no water. Of course it could be that religious beliefs actually are true or at least make intellectual sense but we cannot say that that clearly aren’t stupid beliefs just because smart people believe them.

Case in point, my friend Jason. He’s a pretty smart guy, attended the University of Leeds, graduated, now part of the Row 1 team here at BuzzBet.

Yet this morning he dropped into the conversation that he takes vitamin pills.

I was quick to point out that such supplements have been scientifically shown under double blind trials involving huge sample sizes not only not to have any positive health benefits but also to have a negative impact on your health.

At very best when you buy vitamin supplements you are wasting your money, at worse you may be increasing your risk of mortality by up to 16%. While it is easy to dismiss such claims when published in the Daily Mail, it is a different matter when such research is published by medical journals and endorsed by the NHS.

And yet Jason’s response was “well, I’m still going to take them.”

Indeed it went as far as “it provides me with vitamins, how can it not be good for me?”

I’m not exactly sure whether this is a problem with credulity in the vitamin companies or incredulity in the scientific community or perhaps even a third option – his dad works for a vitamin supplement company and he assures me that they do a lot of research and development which at first seems to give the idea some substance but then here is an organisation which does homeopathic R&D so it is apparently quite possible to waste time and money thinking or pretending you’re researching a topic which has been scientifically proven to be bullshit (as if you need to look beyond common sense to see that the idea water has a memory of certain incredibly diluted ingredients but has forgotten all the piss and shit it’s been in is anything other than 18th century quackery).

This to me then brings up two questions. Firstly why does Jason, even know he has been presented with the evidence that vitamin supplements don’t work, still subscribe to the idea? Secondly, what can I do to persuade him out of such a belief?

I don’t think either question has an easy answer or indeed one single answer but I will float a few possibilities. Actually the possibilities bare as much of a striking resemblance to the religious topics I usually deal with in day to day life as the scenario which I have so far posed does.

Surprisingly (or perhaps unsurprisingly if I had thought about it), the main claim was that of personal experience. Jason claims that he has been taking the tablets for a while and rarely gets ill. Except colds of course – they don’t count, apparently. Bare in mind that he is taking vitamin C tablets and therefore the only illness it really protects against is scurvy. I of course countered this by saying I haven’t been ill recently and I’m not taking vitamin supplements but I can’t imagine this counted for much in the same way you’re not going to convince the religious out of their belief because you “personally, have not experienced god.”

The second claim was that on a scientific basis, or at least a pseudo-scientific one. The argument followed “everyone knows vitamins are good for you, the tablets contain vitamins, therefore they must be good for you.” The counter arguments for this is that you can’t say there is a definite connection there as maybe you need to take them in via eating fruit and that scientific studies have shown that too much vitamins aren’t good for you and probably others which I can’t think of right now but I think a more important point is that the scientific studies show that taking vitamin supplements aren’t good for you and therefore it is fallacious to then build an argument for them from a scientific standpoint.

The other point I found interesting was I brought up the idea of a healthy balanced diet and Jason immediately jumped in and said “well I have a healthy balanced diet as well – their supplements, they go on top of that.” It would seem possible for someone to eat a healthy balanced diet which includes all the vitamins and minerals and would help prevent us falling ill, and yet accredit the lack of illness down to the placebo pills you’re taking on top.

I guess there is also the idea that you have invested time and money in a belief and so you don’t want it to turn out to be false. This is something that Christopher Hitchens often comments on when he talks about the end of the Soviet Union where the communists knew the game was up but didn’t want to let go of their dream.

As for persuading people out of such beliefs, I think education and critical thinking are probably the key. I’m sure I, once upon a time, didn’t go “vitamin supplements huh? Let me just check what the actual scientific basis for such claims are.” I’m sure most people still don’t – as anyone who goes out and buys a 12 mega pixel phone camera will prove.

How interested people are in learning this is another matter though. Jason for example did not seem particularly concerned it was taking at best placebos and at worst a potentially harmful pill every morning. Similarly the anti-wrinkle industry is built on the idea that people just aren’t interested in the truth – the news that Boots had developed the first anti-wrinkle cream that actually may work has done little to dent the sales of other brands.

I would love to hear everyone else’s thoughts on this, especially if anyone else has had a similar experience, I would imagine many of us have.

EDL protest

November 1st, 2009 | Events, Photos, Religion & Politics, Thoughts

I went down to the English Defence League protest and counter-protest on Saturday to see what was going on. There were an amazing amount of police everywhere including loads of mounted police, riot police and an endless series of vans. The Manchester operation cost approximately £200,000 of tax payers money, I expect the Leeds operation cost a similar amount.

The EDL lot were based on city square where the police had them penned off with barriers across the entrances where they were letting people in and out. They had also blocked a number of roads round the area off though they didn’t seem to stop traffic going into the traps – so the most amusing point of the day was when a BMW X5 complete with a very middle class looking family found itself with nowhere to go on the one way system. As such the husband got out of the car, politely moved the cones blocking off the turned off onto Park Row, drove through them and put them back.

It was a bit dead down on the EDL side of things so I headed up to the counter demo outside the art gallery. There was far more of an atmosphere up here though I’m not convinced that drums are generally considered the sound of peace. It was a strange mix of leftist politics as you would expect, for example I’m not sure what the Stop the War Coalition has to do with any of this other than trying to hijack the event for some cheap publicity.

Not longer after I got there Revolution led a march away from the event as they tried to move towards EDL. The police soon had lines across the roads they didn’t want them to go down and they ended up down the financial district.

Having eventually nowhere else to go that would get them closer to EDL things inevitably turned ugly as Revolution charged the police line. They managed to get some people through though there was a second line of mounted officers and several police vans in support so the police eventually forced them back and they eventually gave up and marched back to the art gallery.

Wondering back down to the EDL protest it had really picked up with far more people there and a bit more atmosphere, especially when several coaches turned up bringing EDL reinforcements many of which were carrying banners. Doesn’t speak too highly for the Leeds movement if they have to bus in reinforcements but there you go.

The most enjoyable part of the day was chatting to the other amateur photographers which had turned to cover the event. Many of them had been covering such events for as long as a decade. There were some interesting lessons to be learned too. “I always follow the leftist side at these events,” one of the pro-left photographers explained. “It’s always the left that start the violence.”

Luckily on Saturday there was very little in the way of trouble – the day passed with only five arrests and no major injuries though of the clashes there were with the police I found the attitudes of those involved very disconcerting. “We could have broken through the police lines” one of the leftist supporters said. I replied “Well, I mean surely you shouldn’t do that?” “No, it would have worked, we had the number just not enough people went for it.” “No, I mean, from a moral point of view you shouldn’t be charging the police,” I tried to explain but the concept seemed lost on him.

EDL got approximately 900 people down there while the counter protest managed to get 1,500. Therefore we can conclude that only 38% of the population are in favour of fascism while the other 62% opposite it. Democracy works.

Of course, that isn’t a serious comment. Both sides are actually a bunch of fascists so the real conclusion we can draw from Saturday is that the 95.5% of the population of Leeds that didn’t attend think they are all wankers and wish they would stop wasting our tax money on huge policing operations.

Despite that though I’m glad the event happened. It is a true testament to the free and democractic society we live in when nut job organisations such as EDL, Revolution and UAF are able to speak their mind like this. It is ultimately this type of libertarianism which is so desirable that will ultimately defeat Sharia law, the object of both sides’ protests.

EDL crowd

English Defence League crowd on city square.

Police line

The police attempt to block Revolution from marching on EDL.

Revolution charge the police line

Revolution charge the police line.

EDL coach

More EDL supporters arrive by coach.

Drunken antics

November 1st, 2009 | Photos

Hospital

Me and Nicola at the hospital after Tom had a bit too much to drink on Friday night.

Society & Community

November 1st, 2009 | Events, Humanism

Rich led this Friday’s session of One Life which was one Society & Community. The discussions got rather heated at some points but as ever it was a good evening of discussion and reasonably well attended too.

One Life Society and community Leeds Atheist Society

Post birthday treats

October 29th, 2009 | Friends, Life

On Thursday Oli paid me a visit with a number of suprises including a Lil and a late birthday present in the form of a box of wine 😀 . As my blog readerable is mainly sophisticated well educated individuals similar to myself it would almost seem patronising to remind you that such a produce is the finest type of wine as it can breathe when in a box rather than being stuffed up in a bottle.

This was followed by pizza which included extra for myself and Oli and Lil is trying to lose some weight plus the fun of watching a woman take out a bike just outside our house. The guy seemed alright which makes it ok to laugh about. Oli had to rush off in a hurry to catch a train shortly after which resulted in me not getting chance to grab a photo so I present instead one of the classic Chris and Oli pictures. Enjoy.

Lil Wine Oli and Chris

Tough questions

October 29th, 2009 | Religion & Politics

On Wednesday I headed down to give Kat some company at Alpha at South Parade Baptist Church. The theme of the night was tough questions and so our group discussions looked at a number of questions, namely why does god allow suffering, what about other religions and are science and religion incompatible.

The general answers where because Jesus took our sins, because Christianity has Jesus who was unique and no because Jesus said so 😀 . Actually those weren’t quite the answers but that was the general theme. I found this session much more engaging to be honest and enjoyed it far more though I did find some real cliched points.

I had to hold myself back at least twice, first when people commented that what really sets Christianity apart was that it had Jesus and his story was unique. Of course his story isn’t unique, it fits brilliantly into the hero pattern and is very, very derivative of previous gods. Secondly the girl opposite me, Charlotte, was no doubt a very nice girl and very friendly – but did bring up the “bad, mad or god” argument and I had to bite my tongue from saying “I dealt with this last time I was here, it doesn’t hold any water.”

All in all though I found the discussions much more engaging than the previous visit so thumbs up.

The truth is out there

October 29th, 2009 | Friends, Humanism

On Tuesday Rich delivered an updated version of his talk to A-Soc (not that he bothered to update the title slide lol). This was a rather good lead in to the night’s social at Vodka Revolution in which several people managed to work their way through several sticks of shots (a stick being a variety pack of 6 shots)! A messy, messy evening.

Rich Stick of shots Nicola and her sister Kerry

Birthday

October 29th, 2009 | Life, Reviews

When I went to bed on Sunday night I wondered if I would feel any different turning 23.

Turns out I would feel much worse as I woke up the next morning with my cold having returned with avengence. Still I eventually dragged myself out of bed and got as far as sitting on top of my bed for another few hours until I felt good enough to move.

Luckily Michelle was here to cheer me up so we headed into down to grab some lunch ending up at Brio in The Light which did a rather nice Italian roast chicken dish.

This left me with an afternoon of taking it easy on my birthday and as such I headed home for a business meeting. Well, sort of anyway, myself and Norm had a teleconference with the BHA so we could consult on Humanist Week 2010 – exciting times and all that.

Finally in the evening we headed down to River Plate on The Calls which served some absolutely amazing steaks including my delicious fillet and George’s huge 700g cow. I would highly recommend it if you are looking for a great restaurant though obviously it’s Calls prices. We managed to balance the night out by ending at ‘Spoons though so all was good.

Steak Chris Chris

Liquid lunch

October 25th, 2009 | Friends, Life

Oh how the tables have turned. Today was a somewhat strange Sunday lunch in which George ate and I didn’t. Due to a combination of not feeling too great and wanting to keep my spending under control I didn’t bother actually ordering any, though I did manage to stretch to a beverage of course. Turns out, that’s all you really need. Although I kind of new I didn’t need an entire mixed grill every other day anyway ;).

Bus vs. taxi

October 25th, 2009 | Photos

Bus vs taxi

Someone opened a taxi door as a bus was going past on Call Lane last night.